Tide mills
A change of subject this week -but one of which I’ve touched before. It’s actually going to be a book review and I’ve written somewhere or other about all the local sites the author lists – except one but I’ve never done a whole thing about it as a subject. The book though is essentially a list with only a very short desorption of each one/
So, some weeks ago I bought a book called “Tide mills of Southern England’ by Alex Vincent; it’s published by Amberley . Tide mills are interesting but information on them is a rarity - but they were very important in the industrial past.
One problem is that although tide mills are water mills they get a bit confused with the more conventional water mills powered by running water- which has a mill wheel with a stream of water which drives it round. In most communities they were the means by which any corn grinding or industrial work was done. They were far from simple - there was a whole science of mill righting and water management which we seem to have very largely forgotten. There were mills like this all over the country and there were several on the Ravensbourne River between Greenwich and Lewisham, eleven are listed in the 1086 Domesday Book.
Tide Mills are different –obviously, because they use the power of the tides – not that of a fast running stream. Tides meant a lot more power was generated but they could only work for part of the day’; on the incoming side - although one of the Greenwich mills was designed to s try to confront that problem.
We’re in a very good position here in Greenwich to learn about tide mills. If you can face going through the Blackwall Tunnel and cross the River, behind Tesco on the Tunnel Approach is Three Mills. It is one of the biggest tide mills ever built – the remains now are the largest in the world- and it’s still in reasonably good order and open to the public as a museum. It was working as part of a distillery until that was ended by Second World War bombing. Visit if you can – the sheer size of the House Mill is amazing! There is a good cafe too.
So – which of our local tide mills does the book look at? He has listed two in Greenwich and three in Deptford, which are now in Lewisham. The book doesn’t have a chapter on Surrey but that is probably where these three should be! Although I agree that the Kent/Surrey boundary moved about a lot over the centuries, so you can take your choice!
He designates the two Greenwich sites as ’East Greenwich’ and ‘West Greenwich’. ‘East Greenwich’ is the big tide mill which was down near ‘the jetty’ on the Peninsula – and congratulations to the book’s author because he clearly knows about it which is more than the archaeologists who wrote it up pre-planning applications did. Neither was it known to a (nameless) important heritage person when I mentioned it in conversation some years ago. The author allows himself only three short paragraphs on the mill –which is a pity because it means he has not had space to mention the accident to Trevithick’s boiler, or the rebuilding of the mill by Brian Donkin.
If our readers want to know more about this site can I recommend two articles in the Greater London Industrial Archaeology journal? One is by Brian Strong – who also gave it as a paper at a Tide Mills Conference. http://www.glias.org.uk/journals/13-c.html and a history of the mill, by -er – me http://www.glias.org.uk/journals/17-b.pdf. Also Maureen Greenland’s excellent biography of Brian Donkin includes a chapter on the mill and its structural problems.
The other Greenwich site which he calls 'West Greenwich' is the mill discovered fifteen or so years ago on the Riverside Gardens site near Ballast Quay. There are two nice pictures –much better than anything I have ever had. He gives a brief summary from the write up of the first dig -but I guess he will not have known that Museum of London Archaeology have apparently never written up the second dig, or to explain the relationship and use of the mill by the Ghent Abbey –and also what has happened to the bits of the mill sent to York.
If this has mill and the dig have been written up and published somewhere I apologise for criticising and would be delighted if someone sent me a copy – so I can feature it here and tell everyone about it.
As I said our author has these two tide mills in Greenwich – can I add that there has been some speculation that there was a tide mill at Middle Watergate- in the Greenwich bit of Deptford off Borthwick Street.
And so to the three Lewisham sites – all in the area which I wrote up in my articles here on Deptford Creek and which went in my book on the Industries of Deptford Creek. To my shame one of the three he describes I know nothing about – and I ought to, since there are several streets named after it- 'Tidemill' this and 'Tidemill' that - and a number of local news stories have described some of these sites. It is what he describes as St.Paul's Mill, and I am putting it on my list to research and write up.
The other two sites – the Olde Floode Mill and Brookmill are all detailed in my book on the Industries of Deptford Creek. The history of Brookmill has been a constant feature in a series of articles for Weekender on the Kent Waterworks of which it was the head office; and I hope I can expand this into a book.
So – the most famous tidemill in the area -The Olde Floode Mill. Again it is a pity that’s the shortness of his entries means he can’t give the detail for this interesting site. He does make it clear how old it is and that it has a continuous and documented history since its mention in 1293 and its ownership by Christ’s Hospital. Its final and recent history is that it was taken over by Robinsons who built two big modern mills nearby. They owned or leased it in the 1880s and at some stage it was burnt down - there were many fires. It was certainly gone in 1971 when most of the Robinsons mill complex here and at Deptford Bridge were burnt down. This is an interesting site which could do with a lot more research. Clearly there have also been considerable changes to the river, its course and the bank here which make it difficult to follow the site as its surroundings change, and most recently, the Docklands Light Railway doesn’t help!
He mentions the remaining Mumford’s Mill building which is of course now the only survivor of the mills down river of Deptford Bridge – it was built and owned by the Mumford family, was never owned by Robinsons and was nothing to do with the Olde Floode Mill. It may however have been built on an earlier mill site. He also mentions the Oxford Arms pub- ‘Birds Nest’ as it now called. I had understood that it was built on the site of a theatre and was next to Theatre Wharf. The Floode Mill was just downstream of that. But the whole area has been altered as part of Goldsmith’s College so as to make working out what was where very difficult.
Now to go to the last site –Brookmill. I had no idea it was ever a tidemill or that above Deptford Bridge this was possible.. I always understood that Deptford Bridge is at the tidal limit of Deptford Creek and where it becomes the river Ravensbourne.. I also assumed that the Deptford Bridge and earlier crossings here were always very busy. The Bridge crossing the river here is the main Dover Road, so anyone heading for Kent, or France, or anywhere else ‘abroad’ would pass over it. So how did a tidemill here it work??
Science Museum Historian H.W.Dickinson writing about the Brookmill in 1954 says that in 1701 “the Brook Mill, or Taylor's Corn Mill, south of Deptford Bridge, just above tidewater. Here was the mill ... serving an undershot water wheel’. Dickinson was writing a history of the early years of the Brookmill Water Works of the Kent Water Co.
I understand that the water wheel and other workings remained in place and that it was used as a mill after the water pumping machinery was installed –Dickinson provided a drawing of these works. I understand the mill machinery was eventually preserved by the Kent Waterworks as an interesting old feature –but I don’t know what happened to it after the works was municipalised.
As Alex Vincent says the mill site was near the entrance to what became the water works – the works entrance has since been moved across the river and is not there now. Today the old entrance is the site of the newly built Stephen Lawrence Centre and I understand that the brief to the architect was that there were things below the building which must not be touched –would whatever is there give clues to its use as a tidemill?
Thanks to Alex Vincent for raising this issue and I look forward to learning more. I’ve gone on about this probably more than I should – but can I add quickly that there may be some very real issues with the river Ravensbourne above Deptford Bridge and would welcome comments from other water mill historians’
The book does of course cover many other sites. One is the very, very interesting old site uncovered at Ebsfleet . Another site of particular interest to me is one downstream of Chart Mills in Faversham –a site I knew well as a young girl when our lodger's parents lived in the big house there.
This has been a quick run through what is such an interesting subject and I would love to thank Alex Vincent and Amberley for publishing it. I am sure everyone would agree that tide mills need more research and that this means of large scale industrial milling is given its rightful place in the history of our waterways. It is of course also a very green way of powering industry.
GW Oct 2024
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